ikuturso 🇪🇺

@mastodonmigration@mastodon.online Until today I personally didn't know Bluesky's default algorithmic timeline (the "Discover" feed) is also powered by a secret black box closed source algorithm. Another red flag for me with how much has been talked about the problematic nature of algorithmic social media and not being able to tell what exactly goes into what the algorithm decides to boost. You can see a former Bluesky employee Emily Liu confirm it's secret here: https://bsky.app/profile/emilyliu.me/post/3lffveop3gs2t #bluesky #algorithm

@brembs@mastodon.social some designs here do also feature great apes. Just a single species though.

@Saramo@mastodontti.fi Iltalehti näyttää otsikoinnillaan yrittävän tehdä tästä jonkinlaisen vastineen Kokoomuksen ja maan hallituksen areenatouhuille koittaen yhdistää SDP siihen. Vaalit lähestyy ja IL puoluekannat on selvät...

RE: https://mementomori.social/@digitaalinenitsenaisyys/116940871222934587 Aloitteen allekirjoitustahtikin näemmä piristynyt niin että kannattaa allekirjoittaa pian jos haluaa ehtiä ensimmäisen viidenkymmenentuhannen joukkoon kun puuttuu enää joku 1400

@jab01701mid@mastodon.social @EUCommission@ec.social-network.europa.eu there should be instructions for everyone to scribble fake moustaches, beards, eyepatches etc. on that face.

@Mastodon@mastodon.social that's great, love the collections. I hope backfilling profiles can now get some attention and potentially get in the next release!

@mustikkasoppa@mementomori.social sama taitaa päteä myös joihinkin muihin tekoälyyn liittyviin ja viimeaikoina paljon kritiikkiä keränneisiin teknologioihin. Itseajavat autot voivat tulevaisuudessa mahdollistaa itsenäistä liikkumista ja älylasit tuo näitä tekoälytoimintoja kuten ympäristön kuvailua aina tilanteessa kuin tilanteessa käyttövalmiiksi.

@mastodonmigration@mastodon.online This is also the platform that you still see Bluesky users sometimes describe as not having an algorithm at all... which was never strictly true and seems to have been mistakenly adopted from pro-Mastodon talking points. But you could have at least said in the past that they didn't have one by default so you could argue they weren't entirely wrong... Then they made Discover the default.

@_elena@mastodon.social it's pretty interesting they still really want to avoid saying "Bluesky" and only say "AT-proto". Almost every other project goes as far as including "sky" in their name and repeatedly mentions Bluesky because that's the thing some people might know at this point so it's good marketing... Except if you're trying to present yourself as the new European social platform that replaces the US ones such as Bluesky I guess.

@Szipek@mastodon.social @gawron@mastodon.social @EUCommission@ec.social-network.europa.eu not only that but the Soviet legacy includes them conspiring with Nazi germany to start the war when they allied together by signing the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and divided Europe between themselves in the secret protocols... even if the Nazis eventually turned against them.

@hannes99@mastodon.social @_elena@mastodon.social I think it's some kind of an advisory board that they've tried to fill to the brim with influential government connected people so not really on the payroll probably but it could still be a conflict of interest

@Gargron@mastodon.social here's a collection I made on Astronomy & space to test: https://mastodon.social/collections/116535620461678945 #Mastodoncollections #starterkits

@hannes99 @DerForstHorst @Volksverpetzer @StefanMuenz the European Commission accounts seem to get way more engagement here too than on Bluesky.

@Lykkerik @EUCommission Nah, this has nothing to do with that "basic legal principle" as I already explained. The ICC sanctions by the USA are utterly indefensible in comparison to these as they are targeting an independent international court performing its appropriate legal functions, something that shouldn't even be the basis of sanctions in the first place.

@Paul_Harts@mastodon.nl this is about promotion and the Venice biennale is free to market Russia and their artists. Absolutely nobody is trying to ban it. Personally I don't think the EU needs to put money into doing that. @HennaVirkkunen@ec.social-network.europa.eu

@_elena@mastodon.social @marjolica@social.linux.pizza just the nature of free software that anyone can use it for any purpose. There's a North Korean Linux distro but that's not because Linus Torvalds or any of the contributors support North Korea. Nobody has to federate with them and in fact they decided they don't want to federate with anyone anyway. IIRC Truth Social was in breach of the license terms at first but later started releasing their changes to the source code too.

@davidgerard@circumstances.run you're being accused of lying over on Bluesky, nothing better than posting behind people's back so they can't reply...

besides engaging in sneaky snarkposting @mackuba@martianbase.net misses the mark here:

• Blacksky did have issues related to them not using their own relay/appview including the last major outage when they were still using Bluesky's relay - Also a bit of an issue with BS architecture that you never know as a user

• Eurosky's "plan" for AppView is currently "needs funding"

@nen@mementomori.social en kyllä ymmärrä miten kuvittelevat tuon konseptin käytännössä kiinnostavan oikein ketään. Bluesky uusissa vaatteissa samoilla käyttäjillä paitsi että jos haluat olla W:n käyttäjä niin täytyy passi kädessä tunnistautua. Samaan aikaan se ei kuitenkaan ole niille muille BS:n käyttäjille pakollista joten hyöty jää minulle aika epäselväksi.

@sampsa@blogi.social hauskinta oli kun postilta tuli jossain vaiheessa kirje, että heidän kadottamansa kirjelähetys oli löytynyt ja että sen saisi suostumalla maksamaan pari kymppiä tjsp. Ei kuulostanut missään määrin järkevältä, mutta ilmeisesti jossain tilanteissa toimivat näinkin...

@AndiFFM well it's all the more reason they shouldn't opt for Bluesky that it isn't even offering much in terms of popularity while there are significant negative aspects compared to Mastodon @rstockm

@coatilex@mastodon.social @kaibojens@gruene.social @StefanMuenz@social.vivaldi.net @sl007@digitalcourage.social and it isn't even that clear Bluesky is ahead of Mastodon if we're looking at German or European users, certainly less so than the total active would suggest because Mastodon is just much more EU-centric in its userbase. According the periodically posted stats (see #BlueskyStats) the total weekly users posting in German is only a bit over 40k on Bluesky.

@Lykkerik @EUCommission you still seem to be missing the fact that this is simply not a part of the legal system where this principle holds so it isn't a valid criticism for it. now, to be fair I guess you could use that as a generic argument for sanctions being a problematic mechanism just in general but that is a pretty different discussion.

@mackuba@martianbase.net @mastodonmigration@mastodon.online @hvanleeuwen@mastodon.social We don't know the exact share. We do know there is almost certainly at least a very significant chunk of VC ownership so the old "owned by the team" thing that I think is still on their site flies straight out the window though.

@ricci@discuss.systems well, I do think there have been other instances where it wasn't clear that they weren't yet using their appview or relay... but as I said you can certainly take that position. Anyway, I didn't make the initial claims on either side of this so I'm not going to adopt them either. Think I made the points I wanted to. @davidgerard@circumstances.run @mackuba@martianbase.net

@wraptile@fosstodon.org would have to disagree that it's the only one but it is a pretty significant one and also has implications for how independent anything based on their platform and protocol can really be. Dries Buytaert (Drupal) wrote about some of the limitations when it comes to software sovereignty, Bluesky would get a "C" under his framework and that's before we even consider the network effects inherent to a social platform: https://dri.es/the-software-sovereignty-scale @_elena@mastodon.social

@df@s.dfaria.eu eventually of course but many instances (even mastodon) just aren't compatible yet so can't really add almost anything outside of mastodon.social for now. I don't think even loops accounts work yet. You must be running something pretty cutting edge I presume? @stefan@stefanbohacek.online

@mssuo @ikkeT naurettavintahan tuossa on jos niitä automaattikuvia saa sitten edelleen kuitenkin ottaa itse koska siinä on yritys välissä...

@mastodonmigration I don't think they specifically declared Bluesky to be the singular destination even if it seems like it was the only one that got a mention. I think the idea was that everyone leaves and declares where they can be followed. It seems like they coordinated so that the accounts of the Green and the Left party just today got their Bluesky blue checkmarks on their accounts that had been somewhat inactive over there and the former still is for now...

@Lykkerik @EUCommission I'm aware but as I said there is a fundamental difference between .sanctioning an international court just doing its job for very flimsy reasons vs. sanctioning an organization that was clearly set up by a foreign state actor to spread propaganda on behalf of the Russians directly in the EU.

@dawid@vebinet.com Sure, but cloud infra is just a small part of it. Important to be sure but there's much more to digital sovereignty besides just cloud.

@Lykkerik @HarmBotjes @EUCommission was asking about simple facts that are pretty well established regarding him, you don't need to try a court case to know such things.

@andypiper@macaw.social where do they talk about this trusted feed? is it just a feed of users local to w and thus id verified or something else? @_elena@mastodon.social

@ilumium@eupolicy.social then again even if they didn't welcome nazis it isn't like Bluesky which they're dependent on would refuse them either anyway as they've shown. @EUCommission@ec.social-network.europa.eu

@tshirtman@mas.to I don't think the evidence is very strong that you actually have to keep it secret. It might make it easier to game the system but that's not the same as it being completely unviable to have openness. Many experts have continuously called for algorithmic transparency @mastodonmigration@mastodon.online

@RoastbeefHashTag@mastodon.social I think defaults matter quite a bit. It's the same thing as centralization being driven by everyone going to the main instance. It shapes the way people interact on the platform and what gets engagement affects even those that have consciously moved away from the default. Could make a further comparison with whether it matters that X still exists as the cesspool it is when there are alternatives. Clearly it does, it is influencing millions of people daily. @mastodonmigration@mastodon.online

@renchap@oisaur.com I thought you presented the case for social networks being important in this very well, glad to see there is some interest in a major EU country like France from the representatives.

@thenexusofprivacy@infosec.exchange @Sarahp@mastodon.social well, they don't have to just make a buck, they have to make it all worth it to the VCs that now are permanently leading the company and want massive returns for their investment.

@ricci@discuss.systems you reply like it was only referring to that event but, again, there's been more than a single thing @davidgerard@circumstances.run @mackuba@martianbase.net

@Lykkerik @HarmBotjes @EUCommission so are you disputing that Redfish is/was a Russian state media project and that he was a major figure operating it?

@ricci@discuss.systems @davidgerard@circumstances.run @mackuba@martianbase.net well, I think it's a bit more complicated because there's a whole timeline of how things evolved and a couple of incidents at least possibly being referred to there, not just that single one. While you might argue that's all in the past now and nothing like that will ever be an issue again I think just saying everything was fine when Bluesky broke wasn't a correct counterclaim either.

@deutrino@mstdn.io @007@mastodon.scot @MastodonEngineering@mastodon.social definitely hope to see some movement on this soon considering that there's a PR providing an implementation that could be merged as experimental too. At least there was a comment that this could happen once 4.6 is out...

@Lykkerik @HarmBotjes @EUCommission Doğru has been at this for a while now. Before the "RED" rebranding he was a central figure in "Redfish" which the Russian state media channel RT has directly admitted was funded by them. To me it seems clear enough that this really is a Russia-run operation and so the sanctioning is most likely about that more than anything else even if Doğru of course wants to try to use it to further Russia's goals too.

@gimulnautti@mastodon.green that is a valid concern but saying that's how it *will* end up i's a very cynical outlook for an effort that could still produce something positive... people need to get involved and fight against the forces that try to make it fail like that even if it is difficult when faced with lobbyists like these. @_elena@mastodon.social

@dansup@mastodon.social well it's the scamming human behind them that's probably going to be doing all the spending.

@ricci@discuss.systems @davidgerard@circumstances.run @mackuba@martianbase.net I think it is semantics. There's a real history being referred to with the relay/appview thing, those invisible dependencies may be gone now but it's hard to verify. I'd not call anything I've seen on the Eurosky appview a "plan" but YMMV.

@dansup@mastodon.social are they doing well? Skylight seemed completely dead the last time I checked if people are talking about it :P

@_elena@mastodon.social it does make sense now they chose the Bluesky codebase instead of Mastodon since Bluesky never really has been committed to open source in the way that Mastodon with its way stronger user protections from the license was. Truth social would have loved to take something with a permissive license like MIT/BSD too if it had existed way back when they were starting out. Note Eurosky isn't really that much more committed either though. They promote closed source ATproto apps like Flashes.

@mackuba@martianbase.net 1. bottom line is that for one reason for another they weren't using them at points where it became apparent they weren't as independent as people though, your comment certainly did not reflect this reality

1. I'm sorry but this doesn't really make the case you think it does.

@nen@mementomori.social ehkä mutta eihän ne sittenkään erottuisi muista jos se olisi kaikille pakollista ja ainakin mun laskuissa se että on ensimmäisenä valmiina eli joutuu pakottamaan käyttäjät tuohon aikaisemmin on miinus eikä plussa.

@tomminieminen@mastodontti.fi Onko tuosta rahankeräysten järkevöittämisestä muuten ollut koskaan isommin keskustelua ihan kansanedustajatasolla tai vaikka kansalaisaloitetta? @rolle@mementomori.social