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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔

@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
mastodon 4.7.3
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genuine Internet Old Fart
(you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you).
professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ.
#LambdaMOO #perl #scheme #AlgebraicTopology #concurrency #Princeton #Cambridge #Stanford #autism #AbsolutePitch #RomanHistory #BoardGames #atheist #piano #microtonal

186 Followers
156 Following
50 Posts
Joined November 19, 2022
GITHUB:
https://github.com/wrog
DREAMWIDTH:
https://wrog.dreamwidth.org
FAILBOOK:
https://www.facebook.com/roger.crew.79# searchable
wROG:
https://wrog.net
Open post
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 2mo ago
Replying to
++@Sylkykat@mstdn.social @nixCraft@mastodon.social problem: They FA; we FO after they have retreated to their private islands or wherever. Times I really think there should be some kind of licensing regime for billionaires. Some exams on basic economics, markets, and How Things Work. If you can't pass, then you don't get to have that much money.
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 4mo ago

@mastodonmigration@mastodon.online
@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net

yeah I had this funny feeling that Stuff That Other Rich People Are Going to Care About was not going to fly quite so easily

(of course I sold a lot of shit in IRA Land anyway -- basically everything that listed Microsoft, Amazon, and Google as their biggest holdings -- (yay that that can be done without tax stuff happening). Getting the idea that maybe everything should just go in international funds and call it a day...)

mastodon.online
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 4mo ago

@freakboy3742@cloudisland.nz

Reminded of the POPL conference I went to where the hotel conference room had a stupidly low ceiling and so the bottom half of the screen wasn't visible from the middle->back of the room.

... so Phil Wadler redid all of his slides the night before to ONLY use the top half of the screen. Suffice it to say the slides were Very Short (I think he broke the title across two slides). It was a really good talk.

(Also reminded of my PhD orals where I had handwritten slides (because this was Before Powerpoint) with small writing and multiple overlays (to quote one my classmates, "If there were a Geneva Convention concerning slide presentations, you'd be in Spandau right about now....")

cloudisland.nz
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to on mathstodon.xyz
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca what I *currently* do is compose inside Emacs (the *only* non-painful alternative for long posts), then manually decide how I'm going to break it up -- which actually has some literary content to it, because in some cases, you *do* want to arrange the breaks for maximal dramatic effect (generalized How to Use Paragraphs) Problem 1 being that emacs doesn't count characters the same way as mastodon does, and I don't find out until I've cut&pasted part n, which doesn't happen until I've already posted parts 1..n−1 Problem 2 being having to cut&paste in the first place when I should just be able to hit SEND (which then has to be from within emacs).
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to on mathstodon.xyz
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca Yeah I had <1 year stuck on DEC-20s at Stanford before Unix boxes became generally available (originally had to be an RA on a grant with its own VAX, and incoming students on NSFs typically weren't). Seeing Gosling Emacs that first spring, it was clear that was The Future... => less reason to do TECO ... though ironically, I *did* learn the SAIL editor (SAIL/WAITS -- TOPS-10 derivative -- was, by 1985, a completely dead software ecosystem, *only* continued to exist because Knuth and McCarthy had decades of crap + sufficient grant $$ for the (by then) fantastic expense to keep it going; the only other people who used it were the 3 of us maintaining the Pony (vending machine))
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca ... in Pascal.. And there I finally learned about and was able to get used to using recursion. Although I'd say I didn't *really* get it until the following semester taking the assembler course and learning about *stacks*. It was like recursion was sufficiently weird that I didn't really want to trust it until/unless I had a sense of what was actually happening under the hood, And THEN it was cool. 7/n
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
#Monsterdon too bad about Glauca, then ?
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to on appdot.net

@mdhughes@appdot.net @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca

I stick to posting longer-than-two-posts content to my blog, ...

yeah, that's clearly the Right Thing, but has the disadvantage of not inflicting my text on people directly 🙂

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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to

@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca

I also recall '~' being an important character

ok, I seem to be out-to-lunch on this (or at least, remembering Something Else; but I can't imagine what...):

https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/teco/emacs11/emacs11.tec

(admittedly, this is VAX/PDP-11 TECO source for Emacs and maybe Fred had to do a complete rewrite of some sort and the actual TOPS20/PDP-10 source is completely different, but I kind of doubt it).

It does definitely look like line noise, though.

ibiblio.org
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca ... and, crap, I messed up the threading (it seems 9 and 10 are siblings, so you'll miss 9 if you're reading from here. Go back to 8.) (I hate this UI. If anybody's written an emacs thing for doing long threaded posts please point me to it, otherwise it looks like I'm going to have to write one ...) $/11
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca To be sure, my Perl tends to be more structured. On the other hand, I also hate Moose (Perl's attempt at CLOS) and have thus far succeeded in keeping that out of my life. I also remember there being a time in my life when I could read and understand APL. But if you do think it's possible to come up with some kind of useful formal definition/criterion for "expressiveness", go for it. I'll believe it when I see it. 11/11
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 5mo ago
"never make the mistake of anthropomorphising Larry Ellison" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc&t=2308s (...yeah I know, 14 years old, but I only just saw it today,...)
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to

@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @JamesGosling@universeodon.com

I should note that seeing this https://universeodon.com/@JamesGosling/116173132555028212

reminded me that I didn't actually totally understand this https://mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/116169652684073570

until it came time for me to implement my own garbage collector for ASTLOG, and I'm definitely not any kind of GC expert. I used a dirt-simple 2-space copying collector that Appel published in the 80s that somebody pointed me to.

it ran every bit as fast as promised.

(and debugging a GC is such an acid trip. Stuff just disappears; you have to figure out how (who'd've guessed this would happen?).

I now think that writing a GC, like dissecting frogs in 9th grade, is something that everybody should do at least once.

Open quoted post
Quoting
James Gosling
@JamesGosling@universeodon.com
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org Your understanding is mostly faulty. The original GC was written by me, and I'm no Lisp GC expert. I was (and still am) an admirer of Lisp. I wrote the code for my whole PhD thesis in Lisp. My admiration for garbage collection started earlier, when I was a big user of Simula in the 70s. But the motivation for GC in Java was different: the motivation was all about reliability and security. A leading cause of security vulnerabilities as always been buggy code. And one of the leading root causes of many long standing, hard to diagnose and fix, bugs has been flakey storage management. Garbage collection goes a long way to increasing system reliability, and hence security. I had always wanted to make GC more mainstream. When you described garbage collection to senior management back in the day, their reflexive judgement was: "bullshit! Lazy engineers just don't want to clean up their mess". But when they see measureable improvements in system robustness, and corresponding decreases in failures, they Notice.
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universeodon.com
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca given that I once-upon-a-time wrote a MAPI client for the sake of being able to post to Microsoft Exchange forums in rich text using courier font, in theory, I should be able to do this. ... but that would mean I'd have to Learn Fediverse. crap. hmm: https://codeberg.org/martianh/mastodon.el now I just have to figure out if this is the best one or if this just Guy Who Grabbed the Name first and did the best SEO twigging ...I hate that google search has gotten so enshittified)
codeberg.org
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to on climatejustice.social
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca Yeah, I don't know. Maybe '~' was prevalant in Emacs source, or I'm conflating TECO with Something Else. By my era VT-52s were gone, you'd occasionally see a VT100 in a server room for not wanting to waste $$ there, the terminal of choice at Stanford CS was the Heathkit-19 + if you were in one of the well-financed research groups, you got a Sun-1 or a Sun-2. At DEC(WSL) where I interned, it was all personal VAXstations. I do recall Emacs ^S and ^Q being problematic due to terminal mode occasionally getting set badly (and then the underlying hardware would wake up, "Oh, flow control! I know how to do that!", ^S would freeze everything and you had to Just Know to do ^Q...)
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca You may say that untyped lambda calculus and SKI combinatory calculus and so on) are all *dreadful* in terms of expressiveness, and I will probably agree, ... but it also seems to me that Barendregt got pretty good at it. I'm also guessing TECO wouldn't have existed without there being people who managed to wrap their brains around it and found it to be expressive and concise. I myself never got there (also never really tried TBH), ... but at the same time, it's *still* the case that if I need to write a one-liner to do something, chances are, I'll be doing it in Perl, and I've heard people complain about *that* language being essentially write-only line-noise. 10/11
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca To the point where, the following summer as an intern, I was needing to write a tree walk, and I wrote it in FORTRAN -- because that's what was available at AT&T Basking Ridge (long story) -- using fake recursion, because I *could*; I think my supervisor (who was not really a programmer, to be fair) blue-screened on that one. And *then* I tried to explain it all to my dad... 8/n
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to on climatejustice.social
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org yeah, usually I start with 1/n and then edit all of the n's later, but today I was lazy
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 5mo ago
Replying to on mastodon.murkworks.net
@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net @RobynGoodfellow@mastodon.murkworks.net#monsterdon definitely needs to do Journey to the Far Side of the Sun
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 4mo ago

(I've said various versions of this before, but maybe this makes the point clearer:)

The Turing Test is **NOT** a benchmark.

It's a **warning**.

i.e., Turing *knew* that trying to define "intelligence" was, at best, way more difficult than people gave it credit for, likely completely futile. His proposed "test" is, "If you can be fooled into thinking there's something intelligent there, then there is (or at least there might as well be)."

Meaning that's the only definition you're ever going to get for "intelligence".

And if it turns out we are that easily fooled (which, I hate to say, is now looking like it may be generally the case) then we **REALLY** have to be watching our backs for **other** ways we're getting fooled.

Discuss

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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to

@kentpitman @ramin_hal9001 @cdegroot @mousebot @dougmerritt @screwlisp

(N.B. I've not really looked at the code, yet).

meaning I may yet turn out to be wrong about what's difficult, meaning don't hold your breath on the pull-request (*)

(Also, elisp seems to have changed a bit.

I remain dismayed at how many Common-Lisp-isms crept into the language. I've mostly been in RMS's camp on this, but I'll admit that was based on how horribly elisp's common-lisp compatibility was implemented 20 years ago. Evidently this ship has sailed. And now that modern elisp compile is way better and does native code, it probably doesn't matter anymore).

(*) Ideally, my architecture wanking will goad someone else into beating me to it.

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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
#monsterdon Lacunt ???
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to on gamerplus.org
@screwlisp@gamerplus.org @mousebot@todon.nl @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca yay, actual experience, actual review. thanks.
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca (I'm guessing a mastodon UI that actually respects the use of surreal numbers to number multipost components and rearranges threads accordingly will be implemented approximately never. … though I suppose it could turn out to be one of the more creative ways to get kicked off of the Fediverse … ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surreal_number (𝜔/2)/11
en.wikipedia.org
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca hmm... is there a way to do a reply that is *also* a quote-post? I should try this. https://mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/116185582433077397 (𝜔+1)/11
Open quoted post
Quoting
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca To the point where, the following summer as an intern, I was needing to write a tree walk, and I wrote it in FORTRAN -- because that's what was available at AT&T Basking Ridge (long story) -- using fake recursion, because I *could*; I think my supervisor (who was not really a programmer, to be fair) blue-screened on that one. And *then* I tried to explain it all to my dad... 8/n
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mastodon.murkworks.net
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca I also recall '~' being an important character that showed up a lot in TECO for some reason, and *normally* the only time you'd see sequences of ~'s in large numbers was when your modem was dying and your line was about to be dropped and this may, at least partially, be where TECO's "line noise" reputation came from.
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to on climatejustice.social
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca it's not so much the editor itself, which, from your description doesn't seem that much worse than, say, what you had to do in IBM XEDIT to get stuff done, but the macro system, specifically, which as I understand it,(1) was an add-on, (2) would have needed utility commands that one didn't use in the normal course of editing (e.g., for rearranging arguments + building control constructs) and therefore were put on obscure characters, and *this* is where things went nuts… I recall briefly viewing the TOPS-20 Emacs sources … *did* look like somebody had whacked a cable out in the hall (time to hit refresh-screen) … granted, I may be misremembering; this *was* 40 years ago…
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to on mathstodon.xyz
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @cdegroot@mstdn.ca @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org Is this the book you're talking about? (sorry this was after my time in Scheme Land, hadn't heard of it before) https://www.amazon.com/Garbage-Collection-Handbook-International-Perspectives-dp-1032231785/dp/1032231785/ref=dp_ob_title_bk
amazon.com
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to

@screwlisp @dougmerritt @mousebot @cdegroot @ramin_hal9001 @kentpitman

… and a different model which perhaps maps closer to how people think about this.

https://codeberg.org/martianh/mastodon.el/issues/340#issuecomment-11492926

Please note:

Proposal 2 . reply-to-id can be a draft ⟹ creating chains of drafts . status quo = nobody's doing that yet

Proposal 3 . drafts have split-points (= subdrafts) . many attributes (CW,NSFW,attachements,visibility) live on the split point . status quo = only one subdraft

are implementation choices, not UIs in and of themsevles. That is, both should support the same UIs (for chains, anyway; P3 can't really do trees).

I still much prefer P2. P3 looks to be more work/complexity to achieve less IMHO.

(N.B. I've not deeply looked at the code, yet).

codeberg.org
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@dougmerritt I don't think it had anything to do with SMS. Twitter was an internet service from the start and Dorsey's decision was a matter of taste/branding/marketing; the notion of a service that *only* allowed short posts was Something New. Receiving a twitter feed as SMS texts on a cell phone would have been insane (and probably also expensive back then).
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
#Monsterdon I'll take Bad Celestial Mechanics for $600
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca I still remember trying to teach my dad about recursion. He was a research chemist. At some point he needed to do some hairy statistical computations that were a bit too much for the programmable calculators he had in his lab. Warner-Lambert research had just gotten some IBM mainframe -- this was early 1970s, and so he decided to learn FORTRAN -- and he became one of their local power-users. Roughly in the same time-frame, 11-year-old me found a DEC-10 manual one of my brothers had brought home from college. It did languages. Part 1 was FORTRAN. Part 2 was Basic. But it was last section of the book that was the acid trip. Part 3 was about Algol. 4/n
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz Or, instead of stepping off the ledge, I could have the 100th floor people launch me upwards at velocity angle 5 (0.9999092c), so that they can then catch me 10 years later coming down that fast. But for me, the passage of time in free fall will be 2sinh(5) or 148.4 years. 3/2
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 6mo ago
Replying to
@ChristosArgyrop@mastodon.social yeah they were pulling out all of the stops on that one. https://wrog.dreamwidth.org/70307.html
wrog.dreamwidth.org
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to on mathstodon.xyz

@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz

On the timeline of a hypothetical observer far outside that gravity well, of course

?? not sure what you mean. This is about a completely flat spacetime, so being far away makes no difference in the distances/times that an inertial observer will measure.

There is no actual gravity well here.

When I said,

Gravity increases as you go downstairs, but you'll live longer.

I was referring to the experience of the passengers on the accelerating ships, the fake gravity that they feel; the passage of proper time is slower on the ships that are closer to the origin (and hence accelerating harder). And since it's proper time we're talking about, this is true no matter who's reference frame we're using.

1/2

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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 5mo ago
Replying to

@mjdxp@labyrinth.zone

you forgot 4. mother's maiden name 5. last four digits of your SSN 6. your birthday

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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca This was post-Algol-68, but evidently the DEC folks were not happy with Algol-68 (I found out later *nobody* was happy with Algol-68), so ... various footnotes about where they deviated from the spec; not that I had any reason to care at that point. I encountered the recursive definition of factorial and I was like, "That can't possibly work." (the FORTRAN and Basic manuals were super clear about how each subprogram has its dedicated storage; you just *can't* *have* two instances active at the same time...) 5/n
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
#Monsterdon it's the Small Stonehenge from Spinal Tap
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca I believe expressiveness is a cognition issue, i.e., having to do with how the human brian works and how we learn. If you train yourself to recognize certain kinds of patterns, then certain kinds of problems become easier to solve. ... and right there I've just summarized every mathematics, science, and programming curriiculum on the planet. What's "easy" depends the patterns you've learned. The more patterns you know, the more problems you can solve. Every set of patterns that you can re-express as sub-patterns of one big super-pattern that's small enough to keep in your head is a win. I'm not actually sure there's anything more to "intelligence" than this. 3/n
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 6mo ago
Replying to
@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net @elebertus@eigenmagic.net 476 wasn't a tragedy, but 235 arguably was The assassination of Severus Alexander touched off a 50-year Crisis that destroys the internal trade network, the economy, and basically everything else that mattered... which I would say was the true End of Rome. There is so much we're discovering *now* about where they were then. Archimedes came ⟶⟵ this close to inventing calculus (Ptolomy effectively *did* invent Fourier). People were doing many of the same water mills & manufacturing experiments that the Brits were doing in the early 1700s. Random isolated artisans built sophisticated calculating devices. The Library of Alexandria (which was basically their Internet) was still a going concern at that point... 1/2
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 5mo ago

RE: @sparklepanic@infosec.exchange

(seeing a few HTML5 things I really ought to learn... buh)

infosec.exchange
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to on mathstodon.xyz
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca [..it's possible I'm missing the point, but I'm going to launch anyway...] I believe trying to define/formalize "expressiveness" is roughly as doomed as trying to define/formalize "intelligence". w.r.t. the latter, there's been nearly a century of bashing on this since Church and Turing and we're still no further along than "we know it when we see it" (and I STILL think that was Turing's intended point in proposing his Test, i.e., if you can fool a human into thinking it's intelligent, you're done; that this is the only real test we've ever had is a testament to how ill-defined the concept is...) 1/n
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz We can even do a "twin paradox" scenario: I step off the ledge on the 100th floor (t,z)=(0,1) for those Moving People. √3/2 ≈ 0.866 years later the 50th floor ship catches up with me (√3/2,1) Assuming I somehow survive landing in that net (delta-v is a ruinous 0.866c; velocity angle 𝜑 ≈ 1.317, which represents a passage of time of 𝜑 years on the 100th floor and 𝜑/2=0.658 years on the 50th floor), I can then spend 5−𝜑 years on the 50th floor, then have them fire me upwards at 0.866c, just fast enough that after another 0.866 years in free fall, the 100th floor people can grab onto me, but for them a total of 10 years will have passed since I first stepped off. For me, total time passed will be 5−𝜑+√3 ≈ 5.415 years. 2/2
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to on mastodon.murkworks.net

@Thumper1964@mindly.social @MikeGorse@mindly.social

but they're still having to do work

and I'd even go so far as to say they're doing all of the work that involves actual thought, because the agent is inherently incapable of that part.

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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca Then there was the section on call-by-name (the default parameter passing convention for Algol) ... including a half page on Jenson's Device, that, I should note, was presented COMPLETELY UNIRONICALLY because this was 1972, as in, "Here's this neat trick that you'll want to know about." And my reaction was, "WTFF, why???" and also, "That can't possibly work, either." Not having any actual computers to play with yet, that was that for a while. Some years later, I got to college and had my first actual programming course... 6/n
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 6mo ago
Replying to on mathstodon.xyz
Spoiler ...
@ColinTheMathmo@mathstodon.xyz oh I'm sure. It's just early 70s I have this memory/perception of him having been in basically everything (or at least everything that made it to US network TV)
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 7mo ago
Replying to on mastodon.murkworks.net
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca The point of Turing equivalence is that even though we have different forms for expressing algorithms and there are apparently vast differences in comprehensibility, any differences in what can utltimately be achieved by the various forms of expression is an illusion. We have, thus far, only one notion of computability. (which is not to say there can't be others out there, but nobody's found them yet) 2/n
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
· 5mo ago

stupid question:
What is the actual obstacle to being able to run Linux on a cellphone (i.e., and be able to use it as a cellphone)?

Is there some crucial interop spec that's being kept proprietary/secret?

Or is it there some particular software component that's encumbered by patents and so there can't be a free version of it?

Some weird licensing structure that the operating companies have been able to enforce (and the EU hasn't gotten around to saying, "Fuck you guys; open this up")?

(I'm assuming there's *some* reason Ubuntu didn't do this years ago...)

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