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Steve Bate

@steve@social.technoetic.com
  • Open on social.technoetic.com

American living in Southern France.

322 Followers
168 Following
50 Posts
Joined November 24, 1915
Blog:
https://www.stevebate.net
Code:
https://github.com/steve-bate
Code:
https://codeberg.org/steve-bate/mastodon-verification
BlueSky:
@stevebate.social
Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
What if... you had one Fedi account on a generic headless #ActivityPub server that simply hosts and federates your data... and had C2S UIs for microblogging, long form writing, media editing and sharing, link aggregation, games, fitness tracking, and so on, that all used that same Fedi account. Technically, it's a similar concept as ATProto (but no relay and app view) and Solid Pods (but no RDF). It seems possible... if we can improve the AP C2S API/protocol sufficiently.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 6mo ago
Fun! I just implemented vector search for my Mastodon instance. Now, I can search the posts in my instance (about 11 million of them) in a split second using semantic queries. It seems to work very well so far. The next step is create semantic timelines rather than relying on unreliable hashtags.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 2mo ago

Somebody was asking for volunteers to review software for a vibe coded project. Shouldn't they just use a vibe reviewer too?

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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 2mo ago

I've added several features to my #ActivityPub C2S (Social API) Server testing tool. There's now an embedded automated test runner, the ability to create and post ActivityPub objects using schema-based forms or JSON templates, a server capability report, server capability JSON export (for custom reports), and an optional sidecar server for analyzing CORS issues.

Thanks to NLNet for funding parts of this tool.

https://github.com/steve-bate/activitypub-c2s-toolkit

social.technoetic.com
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 3mo ago

The apis.io architecture that catalogues > 10,000 APIs is an interesting use case for JSON-LD. A variation of this architecture could also be a way to decentralize the #ActivityPub FEP process.

https://apievangelist.com/2026/06/14/the-architecture-behind-10000-api-providers/

social.technoetic.com
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 2mo ago
Replying to
@smallcircles@social.coop I mostly read hashtag feeds on the Fedi. I follow individual accounts but mostly because #ActivityPub needs the Follows to distribute the tagged messages in an even somewhat reasonably effective manner. Relays or similar (tags.pub) can help too. In any case, I don't tend to read account-level feeds or account list feeds.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 2mo ago

How does tags.pub have 143,000 monthly active users (based on fedidb.com)? I know each hashtag is an actor in the tags.pub design, but are there that many unique hashtags in the Fediverse (> 500,000 total "accounts"). Is this artificially inflating the number of accounts and MAU in the FediDB statistics? Just curious...

/cc @evan@cosocial.ca

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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 2mo ago

What is a Fediverse "community"? #fediverse #activitypub #community

social.technoetic.com
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 4mo ago

#ActivityPub quirk of the day: the AS2 Document type. What is it? Well, obviously "it's document of any kind" (per the AS2 spec). 🤯 There are no Document-specific properties. Page is a Document, but Article is not. Some people have claimed it's related to resources stored in files, but files are not a thing in AS2. Dereferencing an Image URI (which is a Document) might return a dynamically-generated resource, not one stored in a server file. One can't assume file storage for any resource.

social.technoetic.com
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 2mo ago

Are there any #ActivityPub server implementations using the actor model of computation? I'm not asking about ones just implemented in an actor model-capable programming language (Elixir), but ones that are fully or mostly implemented using that model. TIA

social.technoetic.com
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 5mo ago
Although *maybe* the outbox makes sense (only actors perform activities), the claim that actors are the only AS2 type allowed to have an inbox is not consistent with the Linked Data Notifications (LDN) origin of the AP inbox. LDN allows any entity to have an inbox. Unfortunately, this breaks some actor duck typing techniques. #ActivityPub
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on mitra.social

@silverpill@mitra.social @mariusor@metalhead.club @trwnh@mastodon.social

This FEP introduces new requirements to ActivityPub, and I will probably add more in the future. Does that make it non conformant?

Not at all. I was referring to the Add without an object to create a collection (instead of Create/Collection, I assume).

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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on cosocial.ca
@evan@cosocial.ca @mariusor@metalhead.club @smallcircles@social.coop Yes, I think that could be possible. I have a rough idea of a “timeline definition language” that could represent all the existing Mastodon timelines (other than “link timelines”?) and also user-defined custom timelines.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@trwnh@mastodon.social @silverpill@mitra.social Yeah, it's not the only bad example of side effects specified in AP. Most of the side effects are optional (SHOULD) and outbox delivery (federated or local) isn't described as a side effect. I think that's one of most significant side effects of posting an activity to the outbox.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@silverpill@mitra.social @mariusor@metalhead.club @evan@cosocial.ca @raphael@mastodon.communick.com "you have an EmojiReact activity which server should add to object's emojiReactions collection as a side-effect." It's a direct rather than side effect, but how is that different from Add(object=EmojiReact, target=object_emojiReactions)? A generic server could support that.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 5mo ago
Replying to
@smallcircles@social.coop @evan@cosocial.ca @elettrona@poliversity.it @LemmyDev@mastodon.social @bookwyrm@tech.lgbt It might be that people don't know what "ActivityPub API" means. There are two protocols described in the AP spec: the C2S protocol (AKA Social API) and the Federation protocol (S2S). I suspect that some people may consider all of it to be the "ActivityPub API". AFAICT, neither Lemmy nor Bookwyrm support the AP Social API (I could be wrong though).
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 5mo ago
Replying to
@smallcircles @evan There's currently no "standard" tests or implementation reports for the Social API. However, I think we'd learn a lot if the implementation developers just included a paragraph or two describing their C2S support.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 5mo ago
Replying to
@smallcircles@social.coop @evan@cosocial.ca I think it would be interesting to at least partition the AP Social API list between clients and servers. Until the API is defined better by the SocialCG Task Force, I'm concerned the list is going to encourage "misconceptions" about what it means to implement the API and how widely it's been adopted.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on social.technoetic.com
@smallcircles@social.coop To follow up on the discussion from yesterday, @evan@cosocial.ca has created a proposal for another kind of “event stream” that is not necessarily associated with *any* AP collection type (see Example 1). This is more aligned with my mental model of an event feed/stream, where a timeline^1 is the history of the feed after optional filtering and content materialization. (^1 However, the terms are often used interchangeably in the Fedi.) https://swicg.github.io/activitypub-api/sse
swicg.github.io
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 5mo ago
Replying to
@reiver@mastodon.social There's a rough analogy to event sourcing, with several significant differences. Inboxes and outboxes are prepend-only. In a sense, they are a projection of the logical time-ordered event sequence (activity stream). The boxes may not contain all events (see spec wrt outbox), so accurate projections may not be possible. I agree that it's not necessary to read the whole box to get the current state of an object. However, note that transient objects are not required to have IDs.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on social.coop
@smallcircles@social.coop @silverpill@mitra.social @HolosSocial@mastodon.social Holos Social is interesting, but to avoid confusion, the phone app is not a "full AP server". It can't federate without an external relay server, for example. Although it combines both client-like and server-like functionality, I don't see it as an alternative to C2S. With C2S I'd be able to access my account/actor from a phone, a tablet, and desktop and laptop computers with different clients. Holos Social binds the actor to a single phone IIUC.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 5mo ago
Replying to
@silverpill@mitra.social An duck rule like the following would fail... ❌ if an object has an inbox or outbox, then it is an ActivityPub actor. for objects that aren't actors but have valid LDN inboxes (the same property as AP actor inboxes).
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago

Arizona (Testing. Please Ignore)

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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on mitra.social

@silverpill@mitra.social @mariusor@metalhead.club @trwnh@mastodon.social In principle, I like the general idea, but I think it's misleading to call this an "ActivityPub" server FEP since it doesn't conform to the ActivityPub specifications. You also recommend (require?) using the result property to describe server side-effects, but you don't describe how. I don't know how you expect to "force clients to specify them".

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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on mastodon.social
@benpate@mastodon.social @mariusor@metalhead.club https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/#dfn-profile and https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/#dfn-preview
w3.org
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on mastodon.social
@naturzukunft2026@mastodon.social 👋 I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but there's a W3C ActivityPub API (C2S) Task Force meeting on March 19. That's where C2S extensions will be discussed. It's listed on the SocialCG events calendar. https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/socialcg/calendar/
w3.org
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on fe.disroot.org
@fasnix@fe.disroot.org @evan@cosocial.ca AFAIK, @HolosSocial@mastodon.social is a quite different architecture. The AP identity is bound to a phone and can't be shared with other client applications. However, I haven't used it. Let me know if this isn't correct.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@silverpill@mitra.social @mariusor@metalhead.club @evan@cosocial.ca @raphael@mastodon.communick.com You're starting to get it! 😉 You quoted "extensions" in the previous post and that was good since the way you think of "extensions" is likely very different than my view. The generic servers I'm discussing *are* highly "extensible" (more than most current Fedi implementations).
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@silverpill@mitra.social @evan@cosocial.ca @raphael@mastodon.communick.com Several generic AP server implementations have been built, so I don't know what you mean by the side-effect comment. Note that my mental model of a generic server doesn't implement any domain-specific behaviors in the server, but only side-effects specified by AP (and extended generic C2S support). There are also simpler ways to design servers so that content isn't tied to a specific server (with different tradeoffs than FEP-ef61). That's a long discussion...
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on metalhead.club
@mariusor@metalhead.club @smallcircles@social.coop @evan@cosocial.ca C2S has client-side and server-side aspects (different, but overlapping, behavioral requirements, etc.). Both sides consume *and* produce AP data (pull and push for S2S, currently only pull for C2S). Fetching AP data (URI dereferencing) is common to both C2S and S2S.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on metalhead.club
@mariusor@metalhead.club @smallcircles@social.coop @evan@cosocial.ca I’m not sure I completely follow. A timeline is ordered by time. I agree that an unordered collection could be sorted by time to create a timeline. The AP OrderedCollection “stream” is a kind of rigid presorting that anticipates what an AP client would want. However, I also agree that even those could be reordered (by time or otherwise) and/or filtered in the client to provide custom views of the activity stream.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on metalhead.club
@mariusor@metalhead.club Thanks. No rush.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 4mo ago

Is there a more complete description of the #ActivityPub Media Upload behavior discussed at https://www.w3.org/wiki/SocialCG/ActivityPub/MediaUpload (last updated in 2017)? For example, the document describes the 202 Accepted async response but not what's returned for a 201 Created response. Is it an object or an activity? It seems like it would be an object since that's what is created, but I see some implementations return a Create activity.

social.technoetic.com
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on hachyderm.io
@thisismissem@hachyderm.io Also, I’ve read that authorization servers may require the CIMD client_id domain to be the same as the domain of the redirect_uris. Is that common?
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 5mo ago
Replying to
@evan@cosocial.ca Do you have a link to the process description for submitting something like an FEP under the SocialCG CLA?
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 4mo ago

@reallylazybear@mastodon.social You are smarter than the average bear.

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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@nathan@ublog.hurel.me Yes, ActivityPods (Mastopod) is similar, but based on Solid and RDF. The last time I checked, their C2S client was specific to Mastopod. However, that may have changed.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 2mo ago
Replying to
@smallcircles@social.coop Yes, those are interesting posts. Thanks. A question I have is if instances are not typically "communities" (other than admin/moderation-bound groups of accounts), what are the other options for community in the mainstream (Mastodon-style) Fediverse? For me, some hashtags serve that purpose. However, the "community" in this case is unstructured (no organization other than a common tag) and the "governance" is highly decentralized (both at the instance and individual level).
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 6mo ago
Replying to on cosocial.ca
@evan@cosocial.ca @trwnh@mastodon.social @hongminhee@hollo.social I think he was referring to the GitHub project description: "Activity Streams 2.0 for Node.js (this package is not actively maintained..."
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on mastodon.social
@trwnh@mastodon.social @silverpill@mitra.social Another interesting "side effect" twist... some of the standard side effects are conditional (like only adding an actor to a following collection after an Accept is received). I think the FEP should also cover what happens with Undo of an activity with explicit side effects. Some secondary/side activities might have clear reversals and others not (some kinds of Update?).
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on hachyderm.io
@thisismissem@hachyderm.io Thanks. That makes sense. Is the client_name untrusted even if the CIMD domain matches the redirect_uris domain?
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on metalhead.club
@mariusor@metalhead.club @smallcircles@social.coop @evan@cosocial.ca I *think* it’s clear. I agree it’s a kind of “client”, just not necessarily a C2S client.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on hachyderm.io
@thisismissem@hachyderm.io I suppose so. If you were truly nefarious, you could create a domain that looks almost like mine and it would still fool people. 😉 But, seriously, thanks for the info.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 6mo ago
Replying to on activitypub.space
@julian @trwnh@mastodon.social Your point isn't clear to me. Of course, people are free to use unmaintained software (even if I personally prefer to avoid software that's been deprecated and not maintained for years). However, in this case, the activitystrea.ms software *is* maintained although it describes itself otherwise.
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Open post
Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on ublog.hurel.me
@nathan@ublog.hurel.me It's too early to say, but the improved UX enabled by an extended AP C2S would potentially motivate users to switch. The migration support will depend on the server implementations (Mastodon-style, LOLA, Nomad, ...).
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Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
Replying to on ublog.hurel.me
@nathan@ublog.hurel.me Nothing I'm describing would force you to have one account. With multiple accounts, if they are hosted in one server or across multiple servers doesn't change the approach. For now, I'm discussing single actor clients, but theoretically multi-actor clients could be written too (I haven't thought much about that).
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Steve Bate @steve@social.technoetic.com
· 7mo ago
What is the process of publishing #ActivityPub “notes” in the W3C SocialCG or one of its Task Forces (if it’s a different answer)?
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