Thomas

@adhd_coffee that 10€ tin whistle turned into a set of uilleann pipes faster than I'd expected.

I'm not an anti-Wayland absolutist. I use it roughly daily. But it's still half-baked, and I appreciate coming back to X11 when I use NetBSD.

@ruben Gentoo has binary packages these days

@oxy@social.bsdlab.au @tubsta@social.bsdlab.au apt will still regularly shit itself, so I guess if it's a transient installation it's fine. But if it's intended to last, it's still a problem. I'm currently contemplating a Gentoo base plus pkgsrc

@lasse I started drinking pu'erh as a cheaper alternative to oolong ... that did not age well @adhd_coffee

@nune I can believe the graphics stack underlying Wayland being easier to maintain than X11, but it just isn't a replacement. So much just doesn't work still, because it's by design

@thedaemon I've disagreed with the direction of the Gnome DE since Gnome 3, but as a desktop it's just one of many. If they want to go Wayland-only, I think is a poor decision, but I'll use something more to my liking. Where I have a problem is when they abuse the historic trust put in them to be custodians of a whole stack of important software beyond their DE. Gtk is not only for use by their desktop, and this makes me worry about the future of other parts of the stack, like Orca.

@TomAoki@mastodon.bsd.cafe @jrsharp@mastodon.sdf.org Thanks for the link! This looks like FreeBSD (unsurprisingly) chose a good path !

@jrsharp@mastodon.sdf.org @TomAoki@mastodon.bsd.cafe That's fair enough, and I have systems where I carefully select lighter-weight software. But my main NetBSD machine is perfectly capable of running Gimp, Firefox, etc. It's frustrating to see a future coming where much mainstream FOSS applications are used to try to enforce a switch to Wayland.

@tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloud I don't think projects are going to wait 15 years to start requiring gtk 5

@tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloud @gumnos@mastodon.bsd.cafe I'm not concerned with GNOME so much as all the GTK applications

@jrsharp@mastodon.sdf.org fortunately no major, important programs use gtk right 😭

@stefano My heart goes out to both of you, and I hope your wife gets back to normal before too long. The flu this year was a nasty one, a doctor friend said she's seen a lot of 2 month-long cases. Good coffee never hurts

@TomAoki@mastodon.bsd.cafe @jrsharp@mastodon.sdf.org NetBSD runs on an abstraction layer, and only that abstraction layer needs porting. This abstraction of machine dependent parts is pervasive, and is why you can cross-compile it for any platform, from any supported host platform (including other Unixes). My experience hacking on FreeBSD itself is over two decades ago, but the situation back then was: FreeBSD is ported to several platforms. Cross compilation is difficult, and needs to be hosted on a "close enough" host. The machine dependencies are pretty deeply embedded, though it's BSD so porting to a new architecture is still going to be relatively easy. Again, this is out of date, so Free might well have learned some portability tricks in the meantime.

@tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloud NetBSD has its Wayland "story" figured out: it has its own x11, and is keeping it

@tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloud That's exactly what I was saying: this is bad news! I hope either the gtk developers back off this arm-twist, projects move to gtk forks, or gtk fades into irrelevance outside of Gnome itself. Historically gtk has been a portable, noncontroversial toolkit choice. This is manifestly not the case any longer.