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awb

@awb@mastodon.sdf.org
mastodon 4.7.3
  • Open on mastodon.sdf.org

From: #berlin
Lives in: #sanfrancisco

Passionate about command interfaces and terminals.
Emacs contributor.
Formerly curator and historian at https://computerhistory.org/

#shell #unix #linux #bash #awk #pdp10 #emacs #elisp #apl

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22 Posts
Joined October 12, 2023
Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 7mo ago

Received a scan of an internal Bell Labs memo from 1982 today that showed an alternative Shell for Unix 4.0(!) called CL by Martin Sturzenbecker. It had typed variables and was referenced by David Korn in the 1986 ksh memo. Much thanks to the Bell Labs/Nokia archivists for finding it!

#shell #unix #ksh

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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 5mo ago
Replying to
@jwz@mastodon.social Can reproduce on macOS 15.7.5 with system Bash 3.2 as well as locally built 5.3. Can't reproduce on Ubuntu 22.04.5 with Bash 3.2, all 4.x, and 5.x versions.
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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@BRicker @Boston_PM https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/061 is the best reference for where Bash features came from (and when). Bash has generally been more conservative than Zsh in adopting new features, which is why it can take many years or even decades for some features to arrive in Bash. Chet Ramey, the Bash maintainer, also contributes when changes to POSIX are proposed and standards compliance is very important to him. #bash
mywiki.wooledge.org

BashFAQ/061 - Greg's Wiki

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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 7mo ago

Question for 1980s/early-1990s Unix/Linux users: What scripting languages did you encounter other than the various Shells, AWK, Perl, Tcl, maybe early Python?

Looking for general purpose languages that would let you run a stand-alone script. I don't think Rexx saw significant use on Unix. Any other popular languages maybe only in certain geographies (like Ruby/Lua initially)? How about other non-Unix languages that made the jump?

#unix #shell #awk #perl #tcl

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Mastodon @ SDF

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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 6mo ago

I have been reading some documents on general purpose macro processors from the 1960s lately. While it seems like they are seen as some kind of archaic technology nowadays, Web template engines are central to many workflows. Brown's ML/I dissertation talks about text generation as one of the applications for macro processors and Web template engines fall squarely into that category.

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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@BRicker I was a VM/CMS user in the 1980s and don't think I knew about REXX. I saw Regina Rexx distributed with the Windows 95(?) Resource Kit and possibly the AmigaOS ARexx version before that. I follow current ooRexx development closely, but I have not written any. I don't believe REXX under CMS, TSO, or OS/2 was used as Shell on Unix: EXECs where small macros or scripts, but control constructs could not be used interactively, AFAIK. Happy to hear from mainframe REXX users! #rexx
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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@Boston_PM I wonder how opening up the license of KornShell (especially ksh93) much earlier could have altered the trajectory of scripting languages. Coming from BSD, I don't think I (knowingly) used ksh until dtksh.
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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 7mo ago

As if patterns, extended patterns, and BRE/ERE regexes in Shell scripts weren't confusing enough, the string operands for the tr utility really look like regexes, but aren't. There is no need for a bracket expression for character classes (it's implied) and of course this is historically different between SystemV, BSD, and the XPG standard that POSIX is based on.

#shell #posix #unix #linux

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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 9mo ago

Ran into two compatibility issues with my Shell scripts between different Ubuntu versions: dpkg-deb changed its default compression and pigz changed where it sends --version info (used to be stderr, then stdout).

All this happened years ago, but OS version upgrades at the enterprise level are hard, so it's good to be aware of differences (like that the non-GNU AWK in Ubuntu Xenial is a mawk version that requires quoting a slash in bracket expressions.)

#shell #linux #ubuntu #debian #awk

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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 10mo ago
Replying to
And my tool has a Y2k problem. It would not work on a system with a local time before the year 2000.
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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 8mo ago
Replying to
Some good suggestions for what to include in my Shell Scripting talk in this thread. I asked around what people struggle with and in addition to pretty common issues (quoting), conditional expressions came up. Specifically, the difference between =, ==, and -eq. Seems like steering people towards arithmetic expressions for numeric comparison when using Bash could resolve this ambiguity for them. Would be nice if POSIX had those. #shell #bash
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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 7mo ago

Delivered my "The Zen of Shell Scripting" presentation today. On my intro slide I mention that Shell is often treated as second class because it is "not a real language" and at the same time "too hard to learn".

Seemed like people enjoyed the talk and will take Shell scripting more seriously now. Success!

#shell #unix #linux #posix

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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 10mo ago

Why should you care about the POSIX Shell? Because it is the *system* Shell for POSIX systems!

It's the default Shell when executing commands with e.g., cron, in a Makefile or Dockerfile, the Ansible Shell module, and anything else that uses the system(3) call explicitly like C, m4, AWK, Perl, Tcl, Python, etc. Some will honor the SHELL environment variable (like ex), some will not (like ed).

#shell #posix

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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@SanskritFritz That's what I think is largely forgotten, that even for smaller tools C was often the default choice before scripting languages really took off.
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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@davemq And that was Larry Wall's motivation for creating Perl: mixed scripts of Shell, sed, and AWK.
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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@odc SNOBOL originated at Bell Labs, so it makes sense that there was a SNOBOL3 implementation on Unix.
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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@barubary I was originally going to include m4 in my question. Most of the m4 I have done were either config generation files (Autotools, Sendmail) or quick one-liners. Considering that macro processors or string processing languages (specifically GPM and TRAC) were inspirations for what eventually became Shell, it is somewhat surprising that it's really only the way expansion happens that is reminiscent of macros. Wouldn't read macros in Shell be great? #shell #lisp
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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 7mo ago
Replying to
@DrHyde Was the use of DCL on Unix you have encountered purely for porting purposes? I have done some PowerShell on Linux recently and have contemplated what role that could play as a POSIX Shell alternative.
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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 25mo ago
Replying to
@kytta@fosstodon.org set -o pipefail has been added in POSIX.1-2024. https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9799919799.2024edition/utilities/V3_chap02.html#tag_19_26
pubs.opengroup.org

Shell Command Language

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Open post
awb @awb@mastodon.sdf.org
· 25mo ago
Replying to
@darkuncle@infosec.exchange @b0rk@social.jvns.ca I really appreciate Julia's work, but can we please stop with set -euo pipefail as a blanket recommendation? Especially set -e will trip you up in weird, unexpected ways in even just moderately complicated scripts. I am not against set -e in general, it just takes a lot of knowledge of corner cases. See: https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/105
mywiki.wooledge.org

BashFAQ/105 - Greg's Wiki

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